I promise you this …
Posted by pittgirl on 09 May 2008 | Tagged as: Downtown happenings
It’s too very long to post all of the important parts here, so you’ll need to go read this article about 18-year-old Justin Jackson who was killed by city police after he fired on them and killed their K-9 dog.
His family, despite Justin’s history of violence and crime, refuses to believe their angel did what the cops say he did. The most important parts:
Mr. Jackson began shooting, hitting the dog twice. Police Chief Nate Harper said yesterday that bullets recovered from the dog were consistent with Mr. Jackson’s gun, a .357-caliber Magnum.
The officers, who were not injured, returned fire. Mr. Jackson died of gunshot wounds to the head and chest, according to the Allegheny County medical examiner’s office.
At his parents’ house in the West End yesterday, Mr. Jackson’s relatives gathered to mourn. In addition to grief, they expressed anger over what they believe was an unjustified shooting. Many family members do not believe he had a gun and theorized that police shot both the K-9 and Mr. Jackson.
Donald James Jackson, his father, said he has witnesses to back up this theory, but he did not want to provide their names yesterday.
He said witnesses told him that they saw one of the officers hover over his son’s body and he suspects the officers planted a gun and other evidence there.
“Eyewitnesses, evidence at the scene and trace evidence from the crime lab will prove beyond doubt he had the gun,” said Lt. Daniel Herrmann of Major Crimes. Chief Harper said that the gun recovered from Mr. Jackson had been reported stolen in 2006 from a home in Elliott.
The family said even if Mr. Jackson did have a gun, it did not warrant police fatally shooting him. In their view, the officers may have shot Mr. Jackson to make him pay for killing the dog.
Denise Bazemore, his aunt, said she was infuriated at the way the police reacted.
“Is a dog’s life worth more than a human life?” she asked.
Mr. Jackson had planned on going to night school and getting his GED, his father said.
“He decided he wanted to make a change in his life,” he said. “At the hands of the city police department, it was taken away.”
Dear Jackson Family. In your suffering for your loss, you must come to acknowledge some truths, truths that may be easier to see once the grief clears:
1. Police officers would rather shoot themselves point blank in the knee cap than intentionally shoot their own K-9 dog. I promise you it is true.
2. If you are standing across from a person with a gun and that person begins firing that gun, you are not concerned with whether he is firing the gun at the dog or at you. You will fire your gun back every single time. I promise you it is true.
3. The police do not carry around stolen guns just in case they need to plant one on a body. Your son had a gun. I promise you it is true.
4. You son had his life taken away, not at the hands of the city police, but by his own hands when he chose to fire his weapon. I promise you it is true.
5. A dog’s life is not worth more than a human life, but as awful as it sounds, in my currency, the life of a police officer protecting his city and his own life, is worth more than the life of a criminal shooting a gun at him. I think it is true.
6. There are absolutely incidents all over the nation in which police officers wrongfully accuse and/or kill young black men. This is not one of those times. I promise you it is true.
7. You loved your son, but he went down the wrong path and that is why he is dead. Admitting that doesn’t mean that he was a bad son.
It is the truth.
83 Comments »
on 09 May 2008 at 10:23 am 1.MiamiShyner said …
Very insightful and very true. I might also add that he didn’t just kill “a dog”. He killed a police officer because K-9s that work as police dogs are officers.
I am sorry for their loss, of course, but a police/civilian shooting involving a black male is not always a conspiracy or a reason to pull the race card.
on 09 May 2008 at 10:36 am 2.T.Bird said …
Amen and Amen.
on 09 May 2008 at 10:47 am 3.expghgirl said …
The officers have been placed on administrative leave per department policy pending an investigation.
This is the tragedy. They did their job, they may have saved several lives in the process, but now they’re off the streets…Pittsburgh is down THREE officers, and they have to live with the horror of having taken a human life.
on 09 May 2008 at 10:50 am 4.Brian said …
I also would argue an animal’s life is equal to a human’s. Why are we better? Because we use technology and computers and earth-killing machines? Because we walk upright? I know I probably sound like a wacko, but come on now. What makes a human better than an animal? Fairly certain I won’t get a lot of support on this one, but until we recognize animal life is precious as well, we’ll keep seeing people sensenlessly abuse and kill them for fun. It kind of makes us worse than animals.
on 09 May 2008 at 10:50 am 5.abc said …
thank you. i’m glad to know that i wasn’t the only one bothered by the creative imagination of this family.
although i do wish my fellow white people would stop saying ‘race card’. it’s the defacto phrase for absolutely any situation that deals with race and it is just so condescending and irritating.
on 09 May 2008 at 10:51 am 6.Brian said …
Oh, and I forgot to say I agree with your entire statement. And I don’t care who would have done what that kid did (allegedly), same results would have occurred.
on 09 May 2008 at 10:53 am 7.cultlord said …
PittGirl - you should know you can’t use logic on those who have no concept of personal responsibility.
on 09 May 2008 at 10:53 am 8.Frank Curto said …
your right Brian you sound like a whacko
on 09 May 2008 at 10:55 am 9.pittgirl said …
Brian, I love you, but you’re a whacko.
No way would I compare the life of say a gerbil to the life of John Challis. That’s like negative 60 million dollars versus one hundred million thousand google dollars.
Not even close. But I still love you.
on 09 May 2008 at 11:06 am 10.Brian said …
OK, see, but why? Maybe I am overthinking, but why are we better than animals? It’s like, hey rock on, you killed a gerbil! But, hey, you killed John Tolos. You sick bastard. I don’t know, I think it’s human superiority complex. But again, it’s just my opinion.
on 09 May 2008 at 11:08 am 11.Brian said …
And when did we suddenly have google dollars? Are they now printing money too? Will it ever end?!
on 09 May 2008 at 11:09 am 12.pittgirl said …
Brian, put another way:
If you had a chance to save a gerbil’s life or John Challis’ life, but only one, which would you pick? Your answer would show which you placed more worth on, and I believe you’d place more worth on one of them. Truly in your heart, I don’t think you think they’re equal.
on 09 May 2008 at 11:11 am 13.day after next said …
Why are we better?
I don’t eat my own poop, for one.
on 09 May 2008 at 11:11 am 14.back in the burgh said …
Good work, Pittgirl. It’s unbelievable what people can force themselves to believe. I think it’s ashame that these police officers have to go on ‘paid leave’ when they were simply saving their own lives. As you said, someone comes shooting at me, my dog or my gerbil - I’m shooting back. I actually think if you RUN from the cops, they should be able to shoot you (you know, in the foot or something) … why are you running unless you did something wrong?
And thanks to all the police officers who put their lives on the line every day! We do appreciate it.
on 09 May 2008 at 11:12 am 15.MiamiShyner said …
Hi again.
abc, I was curious (because I didn’t go and read the whole article), if someone besides me used the term ‘race card’.
on 09 May 2008 at 11:14 am 16.pittgirl said …
Day after next,
Me heart you.
That was funny.
on 09 May 2008 at 11:15 am 17.Brian said …
Depends on how much I like John Challis. Maybe he’s a bastard.
No but really, it’s not an easy question for me. I think it could be based on relationships toward things too. Like, OK, if there’s a dog trapped in a house and some random person, sorry kids, I’m saving the dog. The dude can try to get out because he has more skills for that situation. If I have a relationship with the person and not the animal, I’d perhaps swing the other way. Actually, I’d like to help both get out, but I’m sure most would.
While I see what you’re getting at with your scenario, I don’t think it’s as simple as that. I think it’s more a philosophy rather than a “what would you do in this situation” type of thing. It’s more a way of viewing how we treat beings here on earth and not deciding one’s worth less. But, you know, that’s just how I feel. I’m sure we could go on all day, but, um, I should TRY to get a little work done…
Like, OK, wouldn’t you save a baby penguin over a piece of filth person for Philly?
on 09 May 2008 at 11:16 am 18.Brian said …
Day After Next, do you eat McDonald’s? If so, then yes, you eat poop.
That also was a very funny response, by the way.
on 09 May 2008 at 11:23 am 19.Mitch Cumstein said …
Now that, as PittGirl says, is church…it sucks that their son died and I think they should have just grieved in private. But they’re more than a little culpable in the way their son turned out. Did you see that mom helped him hide his weapon during one of his felony arrests?
I also thought it was shitty the PG and Trib printed the name of the police officer who did his duty and shot this armed felon. Let’s just hope no one goes seeking any retribution against him.
And on the whole human v. animal thing, I’m a dog owner and animal lover but humans are way more better than animals.
on 09 May 2008 at 11:23 am 20.dwight said …
Brian is my American idol!
on 09 May 2008 at 11:27 am 21.John said …
It’s a terrible tragedy that the Jacksons’ son was killed, but it’s difficult to read their statements because it’s very clear they’re in denial about their son. It’s not like this is the first time something like this has happened, and maybe they feel guilt because they kept trying to cover for him. It’s easier for them to blame the police than deal with the fact that their son wasn’t a very good human being.
on 09 May 2008 at 11:28 am 22.RememberDanielFaulkner said …
It is amazing to hear all the “good things” about someone that was shot by police after he fired at them (and yes, MiamiShyner is right, police dogs are police officers and they have badges too).
If he was such a good kid, why did he have a stolen gun and a long rap sheet? Exactly. I didn’t think there would be a reply to that. I am absolutely amazed at the preposterous things that will be said in order to make a deceased person sound better than they really were. Face it, this kid was bad. If you shoot at a police officer, they have every right to defend themselves and shoot and/or kill you. End of story.
Our police officers do a thankless job and they risk our lives for us every day. Remember that.
on 09 May 2008 at 11:29 am 23.RememberDanielFaulkner said …
It is amazing to hear all the “good things” about someone that was shot by police after he fired at them (and yes, MiamiShyner is right, police dogs are police officers and they have badges too).
If he was such a good kid, why did he have a stolen gun and a long rap sheet? Exactly. I didn’t think there would be a reply to that. I am absolutely amazed at the preposterous things that will be said in order to make a deceased person sound better than they really were. Face it, this kid was bad. If you shoot at a police officer, they have every right to defend themselves and shoot and/or kill you. End of story.
Our police officers do a thankless job and they risk our lives for us every day. Remember that.
on 09 May 2008 at 11:34 am 24.Monty said …
I would have thought that Richard Gere would have been able to come up with a better internet name than “Brian.”
on 09 May 2008 at 11:42 am 25.Brian said …
Oh, and I meant no offense toward John Challis when I inferred he might be a bastard. I mean, he might be. We don’t know. But I feel bad for him and his family, and I hope he can be comfortable for the remainder of his life. So, you know, hopefully no one’s ready to throw me off a cliff.
on 09 May 2008 at 11:57 am 26.Mike said …
I’ve got 3 dogs and I love them to death. I would do everything in my power to protect or save them. So I see the point Brian is trying to make. But, human beings make more of a contribution to the world we live in, then any animal ever could. That’s why a human life is more valuable then a dogs, which I think they are a distant 2nd. They may eat their own poop and lick each others hiney holes, and bring mass amounts of joy into our lives. But they can’t cure diseses (sp? my iPhone sucks at spell check). They dont normally serve any other function then to make us happy.
I hope the family will finally wake up and stop protecting their son and see that he was just a bad dude and he needed more help then they could give him.
on 09 May 2008 at 12:02 pm 27.Julia said …
This was a very well-written post, and I’m glad to see that there are more people out there than myself who were bothered by the press this is getting. I think the family needs to realize the kind of person their son really was. Black or white, if you have a gun pointed at a police officer they are going to shoot you for their protection, even more so if you start firing. I think I smell a “wrongful death” lawsuit brewing…
on 09 May 2008 at 12:02 pm 28.day after next said …
PittGirl - the hearting is reciprocated.
Brian - Last weekend, I had McD’s for the first time in about four years (true story!(sadly, involving a three hour flight delay and an open bar)). Your poop assessment is right on the money.
on 09 May 2008 at 12:02 pm 29.lovesthenorthside said …
brian, i love animals. i have a non-poop-eating dog, i feed the birds all year long, i would like to put fish hooks in the skin of the person who did that to that poor dog, but i’m saving a person in a fire, which may happen to be you, whether you’re a bastard or not. just saying.
on 09 May 2008 at 12:03 pm 30.Chad said …
Great comment, lovesthenorthside. Just great.
Almost as great as the whole damned post.
on 09 May 2008 at 12:03 pm 31.joey said …
I dunno…I kinda like the wacko conspiracy theory…the cop shot his own dog with the stolen .357 he kept in his pocket and then planted it on the kid…who just happened to have a rap sheet…but was turning his life around!
P.S.: Whenever I think that there is hope for society, people like the Jackson Family bring me back to reality.
on 09 May 2008 at 12:04 pm 32.joey said …
And for those of you too dense to realize, 31 is sarcasm….
on 09 May 2008 at 12:10 pm 33.Angie said …
Amen Pittgirl. I was so annoyed to read that they thought the police would kill their own dog. I have met K9 cops and they are a special breed of cop. I am sorry for their loss. But its time to be realistic.
on 09 May 2008 at 12:23 pm 34.Frank Curto said …
Brian I confess I have a human superiority complex. I believe humans are superior to non-humans. This does not mean I am not against animal cruelty, or that I don’t support conservation/perservation of wildlife habitat poorly planned residential or economic development. Stewerdship of the environment is not only the right thing to do, its an absolute necessity for human survival (haven’t you ever seen the turkeys in my park :-). But I also believe I have more rights than your pet dog, and if I ever had to choose between helping a human or an animal, its nots not a hard decision at all.
on 09 May 2008 at 12:37 pm 35.Brian said …
Hey Frank,
I respect your opinion, and all the rest for that matter. In case I came off sounding this way, I did not mean to imply that anyone who doesn’t share my opinion would stand by and watch an animal be harmed or harm one him/herself. So I’m glad you said what you said, Frank, because if anyone though I meant that, I totally did not. Thanks!
on 09 May 2008 at 12:38 pm 36.BagitTagit said …
What if, when you run into the burning house to save the dog, and leave the very athletic kid to fend for himself, you step on 3 ants…
on 09 May 2008 at 12:41 pm 37.Mme. G said …
What a tragedy, all-around. Doesn’t the Jackson family realize that they are just sullying their son’s legacy even further by starting a media circus? I wish, just once, that one of these families had an actual police officer in the family; then maybe they’d understand how terrifying it is to be faced with your own potential demise every single day at work.
The Jacksons don’t seem to value the life of the dog on an intrinsic level, but maybe they would if they knew what it costs the city to obtain and maintain K-9 units. Those poor officers; I feel so badly for them that they lost one of their own in the line of duty.
on 09 May 2008 at 12:53 pm 38.Lawrence said …
I agree also with PittGirl ….. exactly what I would have written (or extremely close). As far as expghgirl’s comment on administrative leave, that’s more or less a safety thing. No matter how “cold” you become, you have to recover from killing a person. It gets the officers off the street so they can recover also and get back in a clear mind. So not 100% a tragedy …. but if they keep them off the streets, yes, then it is a tragedy.
on 09 May 2008 at 1:04 pm 39.Sue said …
When he shot the dog, he shot the K-9 Officer’s partner. Or, in other words, he killed an officer in the line of duty. They had every right to return fire. It is true.
on 09 May 2008 at 1:12 pm 40.LostBoys said …
Well, from this point of the story, yes, it was a justified shooting, however, go to the beginning of the course of events.
This guy was walking down the street. The cop saw his hand in his coat and thought he might have a weapon. Cop tells him to take his hand out of his coat. When this kid complies, the cop thinks he sees a weapon. Cop then releases the K-9.
The kid only drew the weapon when the dog attacked. Perhaps the situation would have been resolved if the officer asked him to put his hands on his head and simply frisked him, or told him to put the weapon on the ground. Releasing a K-9 on someone who is not running and not threatening you is not appropriate.
Not saying this guy was an angel, but dogs, like tazers, need to be appropriatly used or you will have a situation like this.
on 09 May 2008 at 1:22 pm 41.Lawrence said …
Slightly balanced argument from LostBoys … but … the chances of a person that carries an illegal concealed weapon nicely putting his hands on his head, especially if he is confronted by a K-9 unit (most people are pretty good at noticing the really big letters ‘K-9′ on the side of the cop car) as fairly, if not mostly slim. Although proper use is definitely required for anything ….. I’m slightly more on the officer’s side on this one until further information is released to the public concerning the issue. Other than that ….. not exactly a bad point, and definitely needs to be considered when they investigate the case.
on 09 May 2008 at 1:31 pm 42.unsatisfied said …
I can’t really add much of anything here — very good dialogue and great posting, everyone — on all sides.
I thought of one word when I heard about this story yesterday:
typical.
on 09 May 2008 at 1:47 pm 43.joey said …
LostBoys…LOL…nice try.
1. Cops were responding to reports of shots fired, i.e., looking for a perp shooting.
2. Cops don’t “think” that they see a weapon…they actually see a weapon.
3. The “kid” drew the weapon, then the dog was released, then he shot the dog.
4. Shooting a K-9 is the same as shooting a cop. Generally a bad idea.
5. You are naive if you think that a “kid” (who has a rap sheet) holding a stolen .357 that he just pulled in the presence of two cops is going to nicely comply with a police request to put his hands on his head….
on 09 May 2008 at 2:03 pm 44.Sparky said …
The differences between humans and dogs: (1) aposable thumbs and (2) the ability to lick our own genitalia….so if you ask me, they cancel eachother out.
on 09 May 2008 at 2:17 pm 45.eileen said …
Of course he would comply joey. Remember, he was such a nice boy.
The media drives me nuts here too. They incite these families to make the story better.
on 09 May 2008 at 2:31 pm 46.lin said …
Humans, not dogs, are created in the image of God.
Brian is trying to confuse the issue, which is that a POS criminal killed a police officer - who happened to be canine. The shooting was justified. The family needs to face reality. Too bad for them da Rebrun Al Sharpton is busy elsewhere.
on 09 May 2008 at 2:51 pm 47.lovesthenorthside said …
ha, sparky. i think the boys in my house would trade one for the other. and thanks, chad.
too bad the jackson family couldn’t get their 15 minutes of fame by acknowledging reality and doing something in their son’s name, like maybe establish a k-9 fund in their son’s name, or make a contribution to bennie’s foundation in his name.
on 09 May 2008 at 3:06 pm 48.LostBoys said …
Ok Joey, then police are justified to shoot people anytime they think they see a weapon. No need to ask them to drop it or reach for the sky, just shoot them. (See Post Gazette article on the $28 Million Federal Jury Verdict on Ellerbe http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08071/864209-100.stm)
We do have civil rights still. There is still some degree of protection the 4th amendment gives to citizens. This is not a police state.
If you don’t tell someone to drop the weapon, they have no ability to comply before you shoot them.
I am not naive. I have expertise and years of knowledge in the justice system and police procedure, so I feel confident that 19 year olds, confronted with 2 police officers, even while holding a stolen gun, do often comply with a directive to “drop the weapon”.
on 09 May 2008 at 3:10 pm 49.Julie said …
Anytime I see this being reported in the news, it makes me sick. Like how the reporters are only interviewing one type of person, how they’re only showing one point of view on the news, and automatically it’s an attack on the young black youth again. WTF? The guy had a (stolen) gun, killed a police officer, what would you do? And then to find out his history of violence and crime is a mile long, and we’re supposed to shift blame away from the person who chose to live his life that way and instead focus on the ‘racist’ police officers who, I don’t know, were maybe just doing their job?? Some people have no sense of accountability, reality, or respect, and I feel for the family’s loss, but I wish they’d stop being total media whores about the whole thing. I’m sorry this person’s dead, but one less guy walking around with a gun in his pocket? Fine by me. And probably everyone else who lives in that neighborhood.
on 09 May 2008 at 3:12 pm 50.Julie said …
LostBoys - I respect your opinion and I can see where you’re coming from, but when was the last time you walked around by yourself at night in Allentown, Belzhoover, or Arlington?
on 09 May 2008 at 5:18 pm 51.LostBoys said …
Julie,
I would not do that. That is dumb.
If I did, I would be carrying a gun.
Does that give the police the right to shoot me or to have a K-9 attack me?
on 09 May 2008 at 5:58 pm 52.Melissa said …
I agree PittGirl. Those of us that are normal, tax paying, upright citizens need to stand up to this bull crap. Our society is being overtaken by folks who don’t want to take responsibility. We need to take a stand and say no more. Lets not justify what they are saying.
on 09 May 2008 at 6:21 pm 53.pgh412 said …
Thank you for this. My husband is a K-9 officer and everything you said is true. Killing or shooting at a K-9 is the same as doing it to an officer.
on 09 May 2008 at 7:10 pm 54.bucdaddy said …
“What makes a human better than an animal?”
Brian, For one thing, a woman gives a much better hum job than a gerbil. Of course, she wants to talk about the relationship after, so maybe it’s a wash …
on 09 May 2008 at 7:39 pm 55.Gunn Lino said …
Let’s see, there are a lot of black cops in the “Burgh, so if a black cop shoots a black bad guy who does the same dumb shit thing this “kid” did, does that make it a racist cop killing?
Let’s see, will the real racist please stand up.
on 09 May 2008 at 9:27 pm 56.Mitch Cumstein said …
It’s been said here multiple times, but apparently for Lost Boys it bears repeating…
He wasn’t shot because he was carrying a gun and the police thought they saw it.
He was shot because the cop saw him pull a gun (minutes after responding to a shooting in that area) and fire. The cops did not know if he was firing at them or the dog, but they knew it was in their direction. I’d say the fact that he fired in their direction gives them the right to fire back, no?
Sounds like this young man wanted the live the thug life and that’s how he died.
If it had to be someone, thank god it was him and not the cop.
on 09 May 2008 at 9:44 pm 57.Shibori said …
Is a dog’s life worth more than a human’s? In general, maybe not. But was this dog’s life worth more than this human’s? If guns are drawn and someone’s going to die? Definitely. One had a long history of public service, one had a long history of crime. One had contributed something to society, one didn’t. I don’t put much credence in what he was “planning” to do (but hadn’t done yet). I can say I’m planning on becoming a nun, doesn’t mean I’ll ever do it- actions speak louder than words. Nor do I care much what his delusional family had to say. “Good kids” aren’t in lockdown at 14- criminals are. Is it a shame that his life was a waste? Absolutely. But let’s put that blame where it belongs-on the family that raised him. The only question is how long until the family files the inevitable wrongful death case.
on 10 May 2008 at 12:17 am 58.lilly said …
Yes, the life of a dog who goes out every day to protect myself and the general public is worth about 1,000 times more than the life of a thug kid with a rap sheet a mile long carrying a stolen weapon. Let’s talk degrees here…a gerbil is not the same thing as a police dog, a moral, normal person is not the same as this despicable thug.
Let his family continue making fools of themselves; why should it make any difference to us? They are beyond ridiculous –anyone who could feel slightly sorry for them, I would hope, is more likely to see what the rest of us normal people do - they’re as worthless as he was.
I feel safer knowing that this kid is no longer out roaming the streets.
on 10 May 2008 at 12:49 am 59.Bamela said …
I’m the last person to read the Trib, but every once in awhile I’m curious about their take on things. They (predictably) are even less forgiving than the PG.
My favorite part:
“All of that stuff was when he was a juvenile, and he made some mistakes,” Donald Jackson said Wednesday, about his son’s problematic life. “That’s when you’re supposed to make mistakes, when you’re a kid. It doesn’t make him a bad kid.”
Right…when he was a juvenile…last year. Let’s just turn the other cheek at how your son rang in his adult years with a silly little arrest for choking a 13 year old, right Mr. Jackson? I mean, that WAS his ONLY arrest as an adult, and even adults are allowed to make mistakes sometimes, right?
Here are some things *I* consider mistakes, from MY years as a ‘juvenile’:
-The New Kids on the Block t-shirt I’m wearing in every picture from summer vacation 1988;
-A haircut that was tragically close to being a mullet between ages 10-12;
-The 6 months at age 14 when I ‘became a vegetarian’ and refused to eat anything but egg noodles;
-Getting my one and only speeding ticket at age 17 while singing along so passionately to Dishwalla that I lost track of how fast I was going.
A sampling of Justin Jackson’s ‘juvenile mistakes’:
- Not only being sent to juvie multiple times - being a horrible enough kid to get KICKED OUT of juvie, multiple times;
-Grand theft auto;
-Terroristic threats;
-Pulling a pellet gun on a Port Authority Police Officer;
and (my personal favorite):
-THROWING ROCKS AT OTHER KIDS’ FACES.
Seriously, there should be some sort of moral reprieve granted to anyone who, just this once, wants to say that justice has been served.
on 10 May 2008 at 5:57 am 60.Still A. Fan said …
lostboys…..OMG
he already FIRED HIS WEAPON…….
pg, i’m telling you - go private and sell memberships as some of these comments are…well…..cookoo for cocoa puffs
lostboys….the police yell “drop your weapon” if they see you have one and you didnt yet pull the trigger!!!!
once you pull the trigger, they don’t take cover and yell “drop your weapon”. they fill your body with hot lead.
are you that naive?
on 10 May 2008 at 5:58 am 61.Still A. Fan said …
monty - that’s hilarious and got lost in the mix. well played, sir.
on 10 May 2008 at 7:39 am 62.Ed Heath said …
Still, y’all are saying this kid was a dangerous criminal and kind of brought this on himself. To the family, this was a child (to parents they are always children, but especially when they are nineteen) walking down the street targeted by police. Now, y’all may say that the police saw a suspicious individual, but the family and friends would ask whether he was suspicious *just because he was black*. And before you all protest that the police are professional and all, remember the Pittsburgh Police were under a consent decree not so long ago, for their practices against African Americans. The African American community has a long memory, or slavery and segregation, which they are entitled to. I mean, this sounds like it will turn out to be a justified shooting. But let’s remember that another young black man died, this time at the hands of the people who are supposed to protect the citizens. That is a tragedy. Concentrating on what a bad person this was makes this a double tragedy, because now the African American community would rightly wonder why the police would think this kid was a bad person, was it because he was black? This is a big part of why the Jeremiah Wright issue has gone as bad as it has. Because the media and so many other (white) people have branded Wright a nut job, and according to exit polls, so many (white) voters say it influenced their decision. For all the progress made, the US is not a post-racial country by any stretch.
on 10 May 2008 at 10:01 am 63.retiredguy said …
Just to add my two cents. This guy was a thug. He was raised by thugs. His mother was charged in the past for hiding a gun for him. I just knew, as many of you did, that the first words out of his family’s mouths would be: “they shot him for a dog” and “we want justice”.
The news media didn’t help when they reported that the police returned fire after Jackson shot at the dog. They continued to report this even AFTER Nate Harper’s press conference where he flat out stated that they returned fire after Jackson began shooting in their direction.
I remember when the city Officer who was dragged by the car had to shoot the thugs that were dragging him. Sheldon Ingram description was “the cop’s big cop ring got stuck in the door, you know, those big rings cops wear”. Good job sheldon, it was his wedding band.
on 10 May 2008 at 10:36 am 64.efw_west said …
Police did a public service on this one….read the story about the “good kid”
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_566819.html
on 10 May 2008 at 1:08 pm 65.C.S. Keys said …
Why does Ed Heath write “y’all” in some sentences and “you all” in others?
on 10 May 2008 at 4:31 pm 66.retiredguy said …
Yes, he was a dangerous criminal and he did (not just kind of) bring this on himself. Waa waa waa. Segregation. Slavery. Bullshit. He pulled out a .357 and started blasting away. And no the police do not have to shout “drop it” or any other such TV bullshit. A guy starts shooting and the police are going to shoot back. If you don’t want to be killed, don’t pull out a gun.
If this guy had the balls to pull a gun and shoot at two uniformed police officers and a police K-9, what kind of chance do you think the average unarmed citizen would have had, should he have desired that citizens car, or jacket or phone?
on 10 May 2008 at 4:33 pm 67.Chad said …
Ed:
How noble. How righteous. How absurd.
Jeremiah Wright IS a nut job. (Do you believe the government invented AIDS to kill blacks?) That kid WAS a criminal who fired in the direction of cops who had every right to fire back. (Do you believe they should have waited, you know, just to make sure he wasn’t gonna eventually give up and put the gun down?)
Neither of those statements is, in any way, a reflection of race. They are reflections of fact and reason and common sense.
If we really want a post-racial country, then we have to cry “Stop” in the face of people who seek to perpetuate racism. And we have to cry “Bullshit” in the face of people who seek to blame racism for the very real consequences of their very foolish actions.
on 10 May 2008 at 4:34 pm 68.bucdaddy said …
Brian,
Both might paw you and both might not, both might kill you and both might not, and both might eat you and both might not, but on the whole, I’d take my chances sleeping with a woman rather than a tiger.
At least the woman might show some remorse.
Answer your question?
on 10 May 2008 at 4:40 pm 69.PGHOfficer said …
I attended the memorial today for Ulf at the City K-9 academy and the only person who was noticably not there was Hiz Honor Mayor Lukey. One would think that when an officer is killed in the line of duty that the mayor should attend.
on 10 May 2008 at 7:38 pm 70.pgh412 said …
A Working Dog’s Oath
Author - Unknown
I will lay down my life for you
and expect nothing but love in return.
I protect my officer with my life,
and would gladly take a bullet in his place.
I am sent in to find lost children
and fugitives on the run.
I find drugs and weapons and even bombs.
I am the first sent in
and sometimes the last to leave.
I am the nose and ears of my officer.
I will protect and serve him.
I would die for him and for you.
I only ask for compassion and a kind word.
on 11 May 2008 at 12:01 am 71.Still A. Fan said …
Ed said: “I mean, this sounds like it will turn out to be a justified shooting. But let’s remember that another young black man died, this time at the hands of the people who are supposed to protect the citizens. That is a tragedy. Concentrating on what a bad person this was makes this a double tragedy, because now the African American community would rightly wonder why the police would think this kid was a bad person, was it because he was black?”
Still said: NOOOOOO! It’s because he had a gun and was shooting it!!! He shot their police dog and then turned towards them. For F’s sake man, wake UP. GAWD! All justified shootings come from the hands of the people who are supposed to protect the citizens. DUH! i hate people who just start writing what they think sounds good to them yet logically, it makes NO sense. NONE. ZILCH. ZIPPO. NINCA. NYET. Would Ed Heath be mad if the kid that got full of bullet holes was chinese? NO!
on 11 May 2008 at 1:22 pm 72.medgirl said …
A K9_( is an officer…thats the way it is.) But we are in America…and in America we protect the felons who carry illegal guns and illegals who steal our tax money and common criminals who are “good kids”…ironical, isn’t it…
WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE PROPLE…This kid was a common thug….not an alter boy.
The K-9 did his job and sacrificed his own life. That is his duty and he did it. This common thug deserves no less than to serve as a reminder what happens when you break the law.
on 11 May 2008 at 8:47 pm 73.Eric W said …
Animals do not have high-level cognition. They lack abstract reasoning, self-awareness, language, and anything resembling civilization. Animals can only adapt to their environments; humans can adapt environments to suit their wants and needs.
on 11 May 2008 at 9:17 pm 74.Jim said …
Amazing. Simply amazing. The courts should have no trouble getting a conviction in this case, sine every single one of who who are so absolutely sure of what happened were surely witnesses to this event.
Let me position myself here. I believe that if you shoot at a police officer you should expect to receive return fire, and if in that process you are killed, I belive you deserved to die. I believe that if you shoot at a police dog, the same set of circumstances holds true. And I believe that most of the time, the police tell the truth when they report what happened during any confrontation. I also believe that the circumstances of this event certainly LOOK like it happened the way the police tell it. But I also know that I was not there so I have no idea what the real truth is, and based on that I damn sure am not going to make a fool of myself by stating without a doubt that the kid was guilty of the actions as they have been put forth. That is what our system of justice is for, remember? Innocent until proven guilty applies to everyone, or has George Bush convinced you all differently?
Have the police ever planted evidence at the scene of a crime? Of course they have. Is it possible for a police officer to be in possession of a stolen gun? Of course it is. Is it possible these particular officers knew this person who had criminal history? Of course it is. Is it possible they decided to take the law into their own hands and rid their world of someone they did not like? Absolutely. Did things happen the way I’ve just suggested may be possible? I have absolutely no clue, nor do I veen remotely suggest I think they did. I’m simply pointing out the fact that it is possible. And that possibility is why we have a susyem of justice in place that says you are innocent until proven guilty.
Shame on every single one of you who are so self righteously spouting forth your opinions as if they are facts. That includes you PittGirl. Shame on every one of who who are so positive that this man who was shot was guilty. Unless you were there and witnessed everything, you have no more knowledge of the truth than I do.
I sure do HOPE the police are being honest here, and I agree that it does look like they are. But I would be ashamed of myself if I simply took it on faith that just because someone told me that’s how it really happened, that I believed it. And you all should be equally ashamed. With attitudes like these, we’ll never get Habeus Corpus back.
on 12 May 2008 at 8:18 am 75.Julia said …
Ed - Slavery and segregation? Come on. I absolutely DO NOT think that blacks are treated the same as whites in this country especially by the police, but maybe it’s time they listen to people like Bill Cosby and Russell Simons and rise above the stereotypes instead of playing into them. I will be the first to admit I lived in Pittsburgh for 23 years and never once went to the Hill District, Wilkinsburg, Homewood, etc. However, stop using the”slavery and segregation” that has been played for the last 40+ years. Be the change you wish to see int he world. This “boys” behavior (multiple times in juvie, illegal gun possesion, etc.) wasn’t punished by his parents, but they helped cover it up! What do they expect?
on 12 May 2008 at 8:51 am 76.Brian said …
Lin, wasn’t trying to confuse the issue at all. Was simply trying to present a different, albeit totally unsupported, side of the coin. Why would I want to confuse the issue? Ridiculous. But you don’t know me, so I guess I can see why you might think that. I wasn’t considering a religious side of it because I do not think the Bible ever was meant to be taken word-for-word literally. But that’s just my opinion. I agree the dog is a law enforcement officer, and if shots are fired at the animal, return fire from the officer must occur. Totally justified. So I agree with you on that 100 percent. State law even makes it a felony to taunt a police dog.
Bucdaddy, temendous, tremendous, tremendous comments. Seriously, I rarely laugh on Monday mornings, and today’s the rare exception.
on 12 May 2008 at 9:27 am 77.bucdaddy said …
Brian, Maybe we CAN all get along!
And at the risk of sounding like I’m now coming to your defense, Eric W. (and everyone else here) might be interested in reading an article in the current issue of The New Yorker, titled “Birdbrain,” which raises exactly those issues. Check their online edition; the author is Margaret Talbot.
on 12 May 2008 at 9:34 am 78.tecmo said …
Unrelated, but I met Aulf, the dog, after a brief encounter with the cops several years ago. RIP to Aulf and Justin Jackson, regardless of how everything went down.
on 12 May 2008 at 12:28 pm 79.btezra said …
one of your best posts and IMHO it was well-written and to the point, unfortunately it centers around a horrid set of events…cops shooting at people, young people shooting at people and animals, young person dying, cops being questioned, people claiming the race card has been played, family who cannot accept reality…
we need to get past engaging race in all that happens, this seems fairly simple, young troubled person tweaks and shots at a cop and canine officer…you gotta realize that if that’s the reality of the moment that nothing good is gonna come of it
on 12 May 2008 at 3:09 pm 80.Jen said …
PittGirl,
You are the voice of reason in a world full of bulls**t.
Keep on speaking the word!
Jen
on 12 May 2008 at 3:25 pm 81.JMarz said …
I could not agree more. I once was in a garage that was right next to a police station. The garage was infested with racoons we asked the police officers to shoot them and they said they would, but one shot would result in an hour worth of paper work to explain that shot.
You want answers for your childs death……ask yourself.
on 12 May 2008 at 4:50 pm 82.OutOfCounty said …
PittGirl, you are right on with this one. I completely agree and I think that the cops need our support because they were/are right.
on 13 May 2008 at 1:44 pm 83.Mia` said …
Okay, I’m a few days behind on this one, but I had to toss my two cents into the mix…
I have several friends and family on the police force. One of which is a K-9 officer. The dog/officer lives with his handler…he is part of the family. To the human part of the K-9 team, that dog is his partner, just like any other human would be…and if you threaten/harm his partner, he will return fire. That dog is worth several thousand dollars in breeding and training. As far as the police department is concerned, that dog is worth more than any of the criminal element they have to deal with, and yes, they will treat an assult on that dog the same as an assult on any other law enforcement officer.
To someone who hasn’t been exposed to/doesn’t know a K-9 officer, perhaps they might think of it as a glorified guard dog…and no killing a guard dog is not the same as killing a person, but a K-9 officer is soooo not a guard dog, glorified or otherwise.
And to Brian…if that dog in the burning building was a K-9 officer…unless the human was a child or loved one….I’d be saving the dog first, a glorified guard dog - then I’d save the human first. That is assuming I didn’t know the human to be a waste of oxygen…then I might just light my cigarette on the flames and sit back and wait for the fire department to arrive (And here’s to the firemen! Another under-rated group of humans!)